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Forum Rocket Spanish Spanish - Vocab Indirect/Direct - Multiple ways to say it.

Indirect/Direct - Multiple ways to say it.

Rob-B23

Rob-B23

As I look at the indirect and direct pronoun examples, I'm struck by how many ways there are to say the same thing. There are in English of course too. Two examples stood out to me. 1. Jorge le pide los libros a Carla. = George asks Carla for the books. If you have to add the clarifying "a Carla", is it worth using the le ? How many ways can this be said? Is it also "Jorge pide Carla por los libros." ? Or "Jorge le pide los libros." if you just don't need the clarification? How about "Se le los pide." with neither party named? Are these all good? 2. Le muestra las casas - He shows her the houses. Is the le referring to "her"? Then where is the he? Is it embedded in the verb? There is also "Se las muestra." It would seem "las" refers to the houses and "Se" to her. So it must be the same, that "he" is implied in the verb. Is this right? Thanks for any help. Rob
Robert-C7

Robert-C7

1. I think another way of saying it is "Jorge pide a Carla para los libros." 2. The conjugation of the verb implies 'he'. In this sentence, I believe 'le' is referring to her.
Steven-W15

Steven-W15

"Pedir" already has an implied "por" (i.e., to ask for), so you can't use the two together. There is a whole section on "pedir" and "preguntar" in the Premium Plus course which should help to clear this up. All the following phrases are correct: - "Jorge le pide los libros a Carla." - "Jorge le pide los libros." - "Se los pide." Although, as you can see, the context becomes more and more ambiguous. In this last phrase, you don't know if it is he or she asking what of whom (he or she)!
Dan-H24

Dan-H24

Rob: regarding your first example, I struggled with the purpose of using both indirect object pronouns, "le," in your example, and also a clarifying phrase, "a Carla" for a long time. In English, of course, we use on or the other, but not both. I finally got it through my head that in Spanish you must use the pronoun, "Jorge le pide los libros" and sometimes you need to clarify who the pronoun refers to if it is not already clear from the context of the conversation, in this case if your listener did not already know you were talking about Carla.
Rob-B23

Rob-B23

Gracias por los commentarios. This was helpful. I wish there were more a lot more examples in the course with different ways to say the same thing. It's great to have this forum. Thanks!
Rob-B23

Rob-B23

Steven: I noticed that you changed my one suggestion of "Se le los pide" to "Se los pide". Are both correct, or only your adjustment? Why is the le dropped? Robert: I get confused on the por vs. para choice but I'm not quite there yet. Is simply "Jorge pide los libros de Carla" also fine? Dan: Thanks for your insight.
Ava Dawn

Ava Dawn

These are very good issues. I am still struggling with it. I attended a very beginning Spanish class and the subject was answering "greetings" "Mucho gusto en conocerte" "Mucho gusto en conocerle" "Mucho gusto en conocerla" "Mucho gusto en conocerlo" I am not quite sure if I am understanding it. The 'te" is informal, the "le" is formal, the "la" is feminine and the "lo is masculine. What is the more proper response?
Steven-W15

Steven-W15

Rob - you can't have 3 of these articles in a row (e.g., "se le los"). Here are some general guidelines: 1.) "Jorge le pide los libros a Carla." You can't say "Jorge se pide..." 2.) "Jorge se los pide". You can't say "le los". In this context where there are two articles, "le" becomes "se". 3.) "Jorge se levanta..." You can have "se" by itself in the context of a reflexive verb. Aurora - "Mucho gusto en conocerle" doesn't work. "Conocer" takes a direct object, so the correct way to say this would be "Mucho gusto en conocerlo". That said, taking out the "le", your understanding is right on. p.s. Added note. I'm pretty sure you can't say this: "Jorge pide los libros de Carla" (very American way of expressing it though!). Please keep in mind that where we might use "to" and "from" in English, it may not be "a" and "de" in Spanish. I somehow think I may have seen an example of "Jorge pide los libros a Carla" (i.e., without the article "le") but I would get in the habit of putting it in there. Written, I'm sure it would be flagged as an error.
Rob-B23

Rob-B23

Thanks Steven. This one is baffling me now. ¿A quién le muestra él la casa? - To whom does he show the house? Do le and él both refer to he?
Ava Dawn

Ava Dawn

Thanks Steven. Just like Por and Para, maybe we could have a lot of multiple sentences where the de or a or le or se and more is blank and we try to figure out how to complete the sentences until it make sense. I have read the rules but I think without repeated examples, I would still be lost.
Steven-W15

Steven-W15

Sometimes it helps to shuffle around the sentence / break it down. 1.) "Le muestra la casa." He/she shows him/her the house. 2.) "Él le muestra la casa." He shows him/her the house. 3.) "¿Él le muestra la casa a quién?" He shows the house to whom? [People talk like this but to write it would probably raise some eyebrows...] So we flip it around... 4.) "¿A quién le muestra él la casa?" - To whom does he show the house? Another way to break it down is to simply take out the "él": "A quién le muestra la casa?" To whom does he/she show the house? In this way you can see more clearly that "él" refers to someone different than "le". The "él" takes out the "he/she" ambiguity of who it is who is doing the showing.
ricardo-rich

ricardo-rich

Hola a todos, Here is video regarding the need for the redundant indirect object pronouns. http://www.lightspeedspanish.co.uk/?s=redundant+indirect+object+pronouns Saludos, Ricardo
ricardo-rich

ricardo-rich

Hola amigos, Mas información sobre pronombres. http://spanish.about.com/od/pronouns/a/redundant-pronouns.htm Saludos, Ricardo
Rob-B23

Rob-B23

Wow great stuff Steven!! You are a hero!! (and I'm not making a joke). Thank you Ricardo. I will look at those soon! Muchos gracias!!
Steven-W15

Steven-W15

To clarify from the links that Ricardo passed on, I mentioned above that maybe I had seen an example of "Jorge pide los libros a Carla" (i.e., without the article "le") but I would get in the habit of putting it in there. Written, I'm sure it would be flagged as an error. As it turns out, it is flat out false to not include it. Soooo, don't forget to put in the "le"!!! p.s. Well, wouldn't you know it... I just came across this in RS: - "Pedí ayuda a Mauricio con mi problema." I pushed it up to the Help Desk to see if this is indeed an error.

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