ة vs ه suffix

Ph0t0n

Most of the coursework I've done online and via phone apps and books have used ة at the end of words like سنة , however, this course ends words with ه most of the time (see  https://members.rocketlanguages.com/members/arabic/lessons/1211/arabic-pronunciation for lots of examples).  From what I've read, the ة usually (but not always) indicates a feminine verb. 

I've been soaking up pretty much anything I can get my hands on - Egyptian, Syrian, Gulf, MSA, etc.  I suspect the 'ه' ending is just an Egyptian dialect thing, but can anyone confirm that, and if so, are there any other dialects that use it as well?

crisfreitas

good question!

eiman-k-elmasry

Hello Ph0t0n
Actually the 'ه' used in this course is just to indicate the sound 'h' at the end of the word. 
The difference between the ه and the  ة (The first being Ha marboota/tied Ha and the second being Ta marboota/Tied Ta) has a grammatical explanation and some related language rules in Modern Standard Arabic which I would rather avoid mentioning here as it's way beyond the scope that these lessons intend to cover and I don't want to confuse you at this point.
Regards

Ph0t0n

I guess now I'm even more confused than I was before... سنه doesn't have an 'h' sound at the end according to the audio.  Nor does تيته , توكه , جنينه , دوده , روايه , زباله , طبله , or لمبه .  So I guess I don't know what you mean by 'ه' indicating an 'h' sound at the end of a word.  

However, I have seen ه at the end of nouns to indicate 'his' for example 'كتابه' - his book.

I tried googling "ha marbuta", "هاء مربوطة", and "tied ha", but very little comes up - mainly some archaeological research papers on ancient writings and coins, whereas "Ta marbuta" has lots of thousands of articles about it and even a Wikipedia entry.

eiman-k-elmasry

Ok then. We'll make sure to add a lesson just for covering this topic the soonest. Stay tuned!

Ph0t0n

Anyone out there know the answer to this?  :-)  

One thing I have discovered is that the suffix ة is much more popular than the ه ... for example, all the dictionaries I checked contain  سنة, but none of them had a listing for سنه  .  I'm just trying to understand if using ه instead of ة  for feminine nouns is unique to Egyptian spelling, or if other dialects follow that method too. 

eiman-k-elmasry

Hello Ph0t0n
You're right. That's how things are in MSA. In Egyptian Arabic, it makes no difference in pronunciation so it has not been given big importance as Egyptian dialect is not a formal writing language so most of the Arabic grammar rules are kind of ignored. 
We are seriously considering following the MSA rules here although it won't make any oral difference just to save you all the confusion. We'll reach a decision about it soon.
Best regards

Ph0t0n

Ah, now I get it!  Up until now, the languages I've learned have a written language that corresponds with the spoken language.  Sometimes it's hard to wrap my mind around the fact that in Arabic the relationship between the two isn't one-to-one.

I suppose a similar analogy might be if you told three people to write the sound a rooster makes... you'd probably get three different answers... 'cock-a-doodle-doo', 'kak-a-dewdle-dew', and in Spanish it's 'qui-quiri-quí' lol!  They would all be technically correct.

Since the course is intended for the Egyptian dialect, it makes sense that the spelling is different in some cases.  I can see why someone might not want to make all spellings exactly like MSL, but for what it's worth...  I vote that when possible and if it doesn't affect pronunciation too much, a loose semi-MSA style spelling might be helpful to us beginners because we're constantly copying and pasting various words into dictionaries on our phones and laptops :-)

Thanks for the help Eiman-K-Elmasry!

eiman-k-elmasry

Exactly Ph0t0n, that's exactly how it is! An addition..the sound of a rooster in Egyptian dialect would be "kokokokoooo" :)
Sure, we will do our best to make that possible.
Regards

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