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Liz-W10 April 29, 2014, 5:08 am
How well should you know Premium before going on to Premium Plus? Do you need to have mastered Premium?
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Dan-H24 April 29, 2014, 8:39 pm
I stayed at Premium until I felt that I was getting diminishing returns for the time spent there, then moved up to Plus. My goal was to color every test in every lesson green, and for the most part I did so. Direct and indirect object pronouns, especially used together, were a challenge for me, so I didn't meet my goal in those areas. But I figured I could go back later and restudy them; in fact, just a couple of weeks ago I finally understood why indirect object pronouns are sometimes accompanied by a clarifying noun phrase in the same sentence.

Now that I am in premium with its more challenging lessons and longer tests, I sometimes long for the early lessons that I could work through more quickly. But I am learning more now, and that is the whole point!
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Patrice-B May 4, 2014, 2:39 am
Dan, I still am struggling with the DOP and IOP. Can I ask you to give an example of a sentence using an indirect object pronoun accompanied by a clarifying noun phrase? I am hoping if I see enough examples I will one day realize an "aha" moment!
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Dan-H24 May 4, 2014, 3:29 am
Patrice: The light came on for me while I was reading a sentence that had an indirect object, and I finally understood that in Spanish, an indirect object must be expressed with an indirect object pronoun, which is then clarified with an indirect object phrase if the pronoun could be confused. The example I used while discussing my epiphany with my tutor is as follows:

"Te escribí una carta." She was sitting across from me and we were the only people present so it was clear to whom I had written the letter.

"Le escribí una carta." No one else was present so to whom I wrote the letter is unclear and needs the clarifying noun phrase: "Le escribí una carta a él," (perhaps pointing at the boy at the next table. Or "Le escribí una carta a mi hermano," or "Les escribí una carta a tus padres...Read More
Patrice: The light came on for me while I was reading a sentence that had an indirect object, and I finally understood that in Spanish, an indirect object must be expressed with an indirect object pronoun, which is then clarified with an indirect object phrase if the pronoun could be confused. The example I used while discussing my epiphany with my tutor is as follows:

"Te escribí una carta." She was sitting across from me and we were the only people present so it was clear to whom I had written the letter.

"Le escribí una carta." No one else was present so to whom I wrote the letter is unclear and needs the clarifying noun phrase: "Le escribí una carta a él," (perhaps pointing at the boy at the next table. Or "Le escribí una carta a mi hermano," or "Les escribí una carta a tus padres."

The confusion for me is that in English we use the noun phrase if the recipient of the action is unclear (I wrote a letter to Sara) OR we can use the IOP if the recipient is clear (I wrote you a letter) but we don't use both in the same sentence.

But in Spanish you must use the IOP (me, te, le, nos, os, les) if an indirect object is present in the sentence, and may use the clarifying noun phrase if needed.

I have not yet taken the time to see if the same idea holds true with direct objects, and I hope that if my reasoning is in error I will be corrected.

Dan
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ricardo-rich May 4, 2014, 4:15 am
Hola Dan,

You got it amigo! Check out the Lightspeed site, which I believe you watch, about redundant indirect pronouns and direct pronouns.

Saludos,

Rich
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Dan-H24 May 4, 2014, 1:48 pm
Gracias, Ricardo.

I do watch and have learned much from Light Speed Spanish. I will check out that podcast.

But, just as I think I am getting on top of pronouns, this morning while studying lesson 9.6 I came upon the phrase, "I didn't see my mom." which was translated as "No le vi a mi mamá." "See" is the verb, "My mom" is the direct object, since it receives the action of the verb see. Yet "le" is an indirect object pronoun. Where did my reasoning go wrong here?

Saludos,
Dan
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ricardo-rich May 4, 2014, 10:36 pm
Hola Dan,

"Mi mamá" is the indirect object. From Dorothy Richmond :" The indirect object answers the question to or for whom or to or for what? with regard to the verb in a sentence." Your looking for your mama even though you failed to see her. Also from D. Richmond: "In a sentence with an indirect object, there is always a direct object, either stated or implied." Maybe think of it as I am conducting a search for my mama. Search is the D.O mama is the I.O. In the Lightspeed video Cynthia also mentions "le" as being needed when referring to a third person. I'm not sure how well I did here as far as helping. I had to think about the why of it as the sentence just sounds natural to me at this point. Also think of this command, "diles", tell them "les" I.O..

Saludos,

Ricardo
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Dan-H24 May 5, 2014, 12:22 am
Ricardo: you helped a lot. I think the "implied" DO is what threw me. I thought there must be DO before an IO could exist, but I assumed it must be stated. Thanks for clarifying!
Dan
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ricardo-rich May 5, 2014, 2:31 am
Hola Dan,

De nada amigo. Me alegra que fuera útil para ti y también felicitaciones, estás aprendiendo y mejorando. ¡Que bueno!

Saludos,

Ricardo
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Aurora Hemminger October 23, 2014, 12:12 am
This is a good discussion on direct and indirect objects. I was reviewing this while in the hospital waiting room while my spouse is having a total knee replacement operation. I found that my smart phone is very limited with RS but still helps.
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Steven-W15 October 23, 2014, 12:07 pm
Coincidence, I am back in the US for a bit with my parents and my Mom just recently had her knee totally replaced. I hope your spouse doesn't have the pain that my Mom has had (and you have to keep on those exercises that the therapist makes you do!)
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maha266 November 1, 2014, 10:59 pm
my moving is really slow, guess i need more time than what i thought in the beginning
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Aurora Hemminger November 2, 2014, 1:59 am
I went fast at the beginning of the Premium and even with the early part of the Premium Plus. Now it takes me more than a week of study with just one lesson. And I know I will need to spend more time learning about verb conjugations, the subjunctive, the preterite and other sentence structures. Que emocionante!
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