"Vivo por ella" / Italiano

Steven-W15 August 23, 2014, 9:38 am
Once again thanks to Cristian for putting us on this gorgeous song from Andrea Bocelli y Marta Sanchez. I remember it somehow being in Italian when I had first heard it awhile ago – and, sure enough after an Internet search, the original is: “Vivo Per Lei”.

That reminds me – a little bonus for us Spanish learners. I was in a taxi one time where the cabbie asked if I spoke Italian. I said no, but I proposed Spanish - to which he replied, “Es lo mismo!” (or whatever the equivalent is in Italian) and off he went into Italian. I actually understood what he was saying!!! I probably couldn’t have identified any single word he was saying but somehow the meaning came across anyway. Incredible! Someone else later confirmed to me how close the two languages are, mentioning a bilingual Spanish-English speaker who directed a group of Italian workers. [Well, that’s what he claimed, at least – take it for what it’s worth.]

Equally surprising is that Portuguese is absolutely not the case (apparently). I came across a girl in an airport who asked if I spoke it and I proposed Spanish. She declined without even making an attempt at it! I somewhere heard that written, the two languages are similar but spoken, the pronunciation is very different.
"Vivo por ella" / Italiano
Dan-H24 August 23, 2014, 11:33 am
I am not surprised that you were able to comprehend some Italian. As little Spanish as I know right now, I notice that when I see or hear some written or spoken Italian I recognize some words. I have also seen some written Portuguese that looked familiar.

But it absolutely astounds me that French and Spanish are sister languages. One of the first things we learn about Spanish is that it is a very phonetic language: with the exception of the letter h, if you see it you should be prepared to articulate it. Yet, it seems to me that French words are full of letters that are not used.

One of my little side projects lately has been learning to play and sing "Guantanamera." For a long time I mispronounced the word "morirme" in the first verse, leaving off the last syllable simply because it did not seem to fit into the rhythm of the song...Read More
I am not surprised that you were able to comprehend some Italian. As little Spanish as I know right now, I notice that when I see or hear some written or spoken Italian I recognize some words. I have also seen some written Portuguese that looked familiar.

But it absolutely astounds me that French and Spanish are sister languages. One of the first things we learn about Spanish is that it is a very phonetic language: with the exception of the letter h, if you see it you should be prepared to articulate it. Yet, it seems to me that French words are full of letters that are not used.

One of my little side projects lately has been learning to play and sing "Guantanamera." For a long time I mispronounced the word "morirme" in the first verse, leaving off the last syllable simply because it did not seem to fit into the rhythm of the song. Then one day I realized it had to be be there and have been struggling to fit it in since.
"Vivo por ella" / Italiano
Steven-W15 August 23, 2014, 2:07 pm
Indeed the "French Connection" - or lack thereof - was quite a surprise for me. So much for learning Spanish on the backstroke...

I hear you with respect to learning something wrong. It took me the longest time to get straight in my "cabecita" that "mesa" was a table and not a house, and to stop confusing "bajar" and "subir".
"Vivo por ella" / Italiano
Aurora Hemminger August 23, 2014, 4:06 pm
Dan, maybe you can video yourself singing and doing the guitar with guantanamera and uplosd it here or even eres tu since I am learning that song now.
"Vivo por ella" / Italiano
Cristian-Montes-de-Oca August 25, 2014, 9:19 pm
Hola!

Buen día, bongiorno, bonjour y bom dia!

I'm glad you liked my list of songs, specially with 'Vivo per lei". I remember that when the spanish version "vivo por ella" song came out, it was a big hit in the mexican radio and tv (I think there was a telenovela name after it).

Now, about the romance languages (Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Catalan, Galician, Romanian and French), as a native spanish speaker I would llist this languages by their "intelligibility" with spanish, in a written form (for spoken form it would probably be a different list and order), the firsts being the most intelligibles. I will use "Our father" to compare each other.

PADRE NUESTRO

Padre nuestro que estás en el Cielo,
santificado sea tu nombre,
venga a nosotros tu Reino,
hágase tu voluntad en la Tierra como en el Cielo,
danos hoy nuestro pan de cada día,
y perdona nuestras ofensas,
como también nosotros perdonamos a los que nos ofenden,
no nos dejes caer en la tentación,
y líbranos del mal...Read More
Hola!

Buen día, bongiorno, bonjour y bom dia!

I'm glad you liked my list of songs, specially with 'Vivo per lei". I remember that when the spanish version "vivo por ella" song came out, it was a big hit in the mexican radio and tv (I think there was a telenovela name after it).

Now, about the romance languages (Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Catalan, Galician, Romanian and French), as a native spanish speaker I would llist this languages by their "intelligibility" with spanish, in a written form (for spoken form it would probably be a different list and order), the firsts being the most intelligibles. I will use "Our father" to compare each other.

PADRE NUESTRO

Padre nuestro que estás en el Cielo,
santificado sea tu nombre,
venga a nosotros tu Reino,
hágase tu voluntad en la Tierra como en el Cielo,
danos hoy nuestro pan de cada día,
y perdona nuestras ofensas,
como también nosotros perdonamos a los que nos ofenden,
no nos dejes caer en la tentación,
y líbranos del mal.

IN english

Our Father
Our Father,
who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come;
thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread;
and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil


1) Gallego or Galician. I like to see galician as the combination between spanish and portuguese. It is spoken in Galicia , Spain, and I find it very similar, in written and spoken forms.

PAI NOSO
Pai noso del célo,
santificado seña el tou nome,
veña a nós el tou reino,
fágase a túa vontade
así na terra como no célo.
El noso pan de cada día dánolo hoi
e perdoa as nosas ofensas
como nós perdoamos aos que nos ofenden.
Non nos deixes caer na tentación
e líbranos del mal.

2) Brazilian Portuguese
It is a little bit hard to understand the difference between brazilian portuguese and the one spoken in Portugal, but I have been more in contact with Brazilians, mainly because we share the same continent and I get some brazilian portuguese channels with cable.

Pai nosso
Pai nosso, que estais no céu
Santificado seja o Vosso nome,
Venha a nós o Vosso reino,
Seja feita a Vossa vontade,
Assim na terra como no céu.
O pão nosso de cada dia nos dai hoje.
Perdoai as nossas ofensas,
Assim como nós perdoamos a quem nos têm ofendido.
E não nos deixeis cair em tentação,
Mas livrai-nos do mal,

The portugal version is the same, but you will find the diferrences in every day chat , music and Tv.

3) Portugal's portuguese
Read above

4)Italian
Italian, as you already have said, is very similar to spanish.

Padre Nostro
Padre nostro che sei nei cieli,
sia santificato il tuo Nome,
venga il tuo Regno,
sia fatta la tua Volontà
come in cielo così in terra.
Dacci oggi il nostro pane quotidiano,
e rimetti a noi i nostri debiti
come noi li rimettiamo ai nostri debitori,
e non ci indurre in tentazione,
ma liberaci dal Male.

5)French
For me , written is a bit similar, and spoken...A whole new world!!!.,

Notre Père, qui es aux cieux,
que ton nom soit sanctifié.
que ton règne vienne ;
que ta volonté soit faite sur la terre comme au ciel.
Donne-nous aujourd'hui notre pain de ce jour.
remets-nous nos dettes, comme nous les avons remises nous-mêmes à ceux qui nous devaient.
et ne nous soumets pas à la tentation,
mais délivre-nous du Mal.

5) Romanian,
Probably the romance language that changed the most and it is very difficult to understand it, in written and spoken forms.


Tatăl nostru
Tatăl nostru, Care eşti în ceruri, sfinţească-se numele Tău;
Vie împărăţia Ta; facă-se voia Ta, precum în cer şi pe pământ.
Pâinea noastră cea spre fiinţă dă-ne-o nouă astăzi;
Şi ne iartă nouă greşelile noastre, precum şi noi iertăm greşiţilor noştri;
Şi nu ne duce pe noi în ispită, ci ne izbăveşte de cel rău. Că a Ta este împărăţia şi puterea şi slava în veci.


SPECIAL ADDITIONS (Languages spoken in specific areas of spain and italy )

Asturiano or Asturian, spoken in northern Spain, specialy Asturias (where the prince of Spain lives)

PADRE NUESU
Padre nuesu que tas en cielu:
santificáu seya'l to nome,
amiye'l to reinu,
fáigase la to voluntá
lo mesmo na tierra qu'en cielu.
El nuesu pan de tolos díes
dánoslo güei,
perdónamos les nueses ofenses
lo mesmo que nós facemos
colos que mos faltaren;
nun mos dexes cayer na tentación,
y llíbramos del mal.

Aragonese, Aragonés.
is another Romance language spoken by people throughout the valleys of the Pyrenees in Aragon, Spain.

Pai nuestro
Pai nuestro que yes en o zielo,
satificato siga o tuyo nombre,
bienga ta nusatros o reino tuyo
y se faiga la tuya boluntá
en a tierra como en o zielo.
O pan nuestro de cada diya
da-lo-mos güei,
perdona las nuestras faltas
como tamién nusatros perdonamos
a os que mos faltan,
no mos dixes cayer en a tentazión
y libera-mos d'o mal.

Catalan. This is spoken mainly in Catalonia ( Catalyna or Cataluña) in Spain close to the french border. I see this is a croosover between french and spanish

PARE NOSTRA
Pare nostra del cel,
sigui santificat el teu nom;
vingui el teu Regne;
faci’s la teva voluntat,
com al cel,
així també a la terra.
Dóna’ns avui el nostre pa de cada dia;
i perdona’ns les nostres ofenses,
com també nosaltres hem perdonat els qui ens ofenen;
i no deixis que caiguem en la temptació,
ans deslliura’ns del Maligne

Valencian , Valenciano

This is mainly the Catalan spoken in Valencia, Spain, So it is very similar to catalan

Pare nostre
Pare nostre, que estás en
el cel. Santificat siga el
teu nom. Vinga a nosatres
el teu regne. Taça's la leua
voluntat aixina en la ter-
ra com en el cel. El nostre
pa de cada dia dona-nos-
el hui. I perdona-nos les
nostres culpes aixina
com nosatres perdonem
als qui nos ofenen. I no
nos deixes caure en la
temtació. Sino lliura-
nos del mal.

Extremaduran language,

Spoken in the regions of Extremadura and Salamanca, Spain.

PARE NUESTRU
Pare nuestru que estás nel cielu.
Santificau sea el tu nombri
venga a nojotrus el tu reinu.
Jágase la tu voluntá
asina en la tierra comu en el cielu.
Damos hoy el nuestru pan de cá día
y perdónamos las nuestras ofensas
como nojostrus perdonamos a los que mos ofenden;
no mos dejis cael en tentación
y líbramos del mal.


Sicilian. Very similar to italian, spoken in Sicily, I think most of the "italian" we hear in the movie Godfather , is actually Sicilian, you will see the slight differences.


Patri nostru
Patri nostru, ca siti nnô celu,
Fussi santificatu lu nomu vostru.
Vinissi imprescia lu regnu vostru,
Fussi faciuta la vostra Divina Vuluntati,
Comu nnô celu, d'accussì nnâ terra.
Ni dati sta jurnata lu nostru panuzzu cutiddianu,
E ni pirdunati li nostri piccati,
D'accussì niàvutri li pirdunamu ê nostri dibbitura.
E mancu ni lassati a cascari nnâ tintazzioni,
Ma ni scanzati dû mali.

Venetian,

Another one similar to Italian. Spoken in Venetia.

Pare Nostro
Pare Nostro che te si nei ciei
sia santificà el to nome;
vegna el to regno
sia fata ea to voeontà
in tera così come in ciel.
Dane anquo el nostro pan quotidiano,
rimeti a noialtri i nostri debiti,
come noialtri i rimetemo ai nostri debitori.
E non sta portarne in tentasion
ma liberane dal maigno.


Sorry for the long post!

Saludos!
"Vivo por ella" / Italiano
Aurora Hemminger August 26, 2014, 3:45 am
Love the post. Thanks Christian. I was actually in Asturias, Aragon and Santiago de Campostela (Galician) last year. Now, I'm wondering if all the RS we are learning, we'll help me if I go back to those places
"Vivo por ella" / Italiano
Steven-W15 August 26, 2014, 10:15 am
If my experience in the Costa del sol is any indication, people will understand you when you talk to them and vice versa. That said, when people from there are talking among themselves, it doesn't even register as Spanish for me (let alone trying to understand the details of what they're saying!). I wonder if they're speaking in a "patois" / some local dialect (I don't think one was listed in Cristian's list above for that area in the south of Spain, southwest of Valencia).

Catalan is definitely a mix of Spanish and French. When I was in Barcelona quite awhile back, I had little trouble reading the signs.
"Vivo por ella" / Italiano
Cristian-Montes-de-Oca August 26, 2014, 2:32 pm
Hi Steven.

Costa del Sol is Málaga, and belongs to the province of Andalucía.
Probably the reason why you had trouble understanding them while they were talking among themselves its because the andaluz " dialect " has slight variatons from Castillian (Spanish).Why did I put dialect between quation marks? Well, more than a dialect, the andaluz is a "variante lingüística", a variant of spanish. You can see it as the difference between american english and british english. Actually, I was reeding that due to the large population of Andalusia, the Andalusian dialect is the second most spoken dialect in Spain, after the transitional variants between Castilian and Andalusian.
Remember Shrek's Puss with boots? He had an andalusian accent in the spanish version of the movie, voiced by Antonio Banderas in the english and spanish versions...Read More
Hi Steven.

Costa del Sol is Málaga, and belongs to the province of Andalucía.
Probably the reason why you had trouble understanding them while they were talking among themselves its because the andaluz " dialect " has slight variatons from Castillian (Spanish).Why did I put dialect between quation marks? Well, more than a dialect, the andaluz is a "variante lingüística", a variant of spanish. You can see it as the difference between american english and british english. Actually, I was reeding that due to the large population of Andalusia, the Andalusian dialect is the second most spoken dialect in Spain, after the transitional variants between Castilian and Andalusian.
Remember Shrek's Puss with boots? He had an andalusian accent in the spanish version of the movie, voiced by Antonio Banderas in the english and spanish versions.
Another interesting fact is that Andalusian spanish was a big influence to latinamerican spanish, they , for example, use more "ustedes" than "vosotros" just like us!.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andalusian_Spanish


Probably that is why I did not include this variant in my post. It would be complicated to explain, since the writing is...well , basically the same, but the pronunciaton, the accent and certain words are the ones that change!..maybe I will try to explain more in a different post about variants or spanish (mexican, argentinian, peruvian, chilean, etc)



Saludos!
"Vivo por ella" / Italiano
Steven-W15 August 27, 2014, 11:24 am
Thanks Cristian. Interesting notes regarding Shrek / Antonio Banderas and the influence of Andalusian Spanish in Latinoamerican Spanish!

I remember talking with an American who was fluent in Spanish and he was of the opinion that people in Andalusia spoke terribly (i.e., they slurred / didn't pronounce their words correctly). Are some accents / variants more or less esteemed than others?
"Vivo por ella" / Italiano
Dan-H24 August 27, 2014, 11:40 am
I too was interested in the comment about Antonio Banderas. I love the Shrek/Puss in Boots animated movies anyway and will have to listen to his accent more carefully.

Side note about Antonio Banderas: several years ago a tribute to the music of Andrew Lloyd Webber was done and Banderas sang the theme song to Phantom of the Opera and absolutely knocked it out of the park. I was astounded that he could sing such a difficult song so well. Infinitely better than Gerard Butler in the movie version.

Back to accents: the Peruana that helps me study has said on several occasions that she loves to hear Columbians speak. She says they have the clearest, cleanest accents.
"Vivo por ella" / Italiano
Steven-W15 August 27, 2014, 12:10 pm
I had no idea Antonio Banderas could sing! Talented guy. And to think he initially came to the US without any English and a few years later was asked to do the voice of Puss in Boots in Shrek...

Side note. If you go back and look at "Shrek 2", when donkey becomes a stallion and they rob some guy of his clothes, Puss in Boots falls off the back of the horse and with disgust reverts back to his mother tongue:

"Oye!! pedazo de carne con patas, ¿cómo te atreves a hacerme esto?"

"Hey! Piece of meat with legs! How dare you do this to me!"
"Vivo por ella" / Italiano
Dan-H24 August 27, 2014, 12:29 pm
And best of all, he got to do those sexy scenes with Salma Hayak in Desperado and Once Upon a Time in Mexico. My favorite quote:

Agent Sands (played by Jonny Depp) "Does it have a name?"

Cucey (played by Danny Trejo) , "El Mariachi. We call him El. That means The."

Sands: "I know what it means, thank you."
"Vivo por ella" / Italiano
Cristian-Montes-de-Oca August 27, 2014, 2:52 pm
Hi,

Yes, also for me, as a native spanish speaker, I found andalusian a bit difficult to understand, it seems so fast and a lot of the letters at the end of words, simply seem to disappear (aspirated consonant).

Now, about accents and dialects, I also like some of the colombian accents, I find the Chilean accent very interesting as well as the one from Venezuela.
On the other hand I dont always enjoy the accent from Argentina and Spain, but again, not all the accents from Spain are the same, I had a friend from Asturias and I really enjoyed his accent, on the other hand Andalusian accent is not as appealing for me. With Argentina, I preffer the northern accents more than the southern( Like the one from Buenos Aires)...Read More
Hi,

Yes, also for me, as a native spanish speaker, I found andalusian a bit difficult to understand, it seems so fast and a lot of the letters at the end of words, simply seem to disappear (aspirated consonant).

Now, about accents and dialects, I also like some of the colombian accents, I find the Chilean accent very interesting as well as the one from Venezuela.
On the other hand I dont always enjoy the accent from Argentina and Spain, but again, not all the accents from Spain are the same, I had a friend from Asturias and I really enjoyed his accent, on the other hand Andalusian accent is not as appealing for me. With Argentina, I preffer the northern accents more than the southern( Like the one from Buenos Aires).

Within Mexico we also have variants, the most popular and widely spoken would be the one from central Mexico (Mexico city and its sorroundings). It is very well known in latinamerica because most movies that are dubbed in spanish are made with this kind of accent. (Shrek's donkey on the latin spanish version, speaks in a very slang and a bit exagerated Mexico city accent).

I think it is a matter of personal choice, I have found that many mexicans held the spain accent with high esteem, but I think it has to do more with cultural things (back when we were a spaniard colony), but who knows?

Saludos!
"Vivo por ella" / Italiano
Steven-W15 August 27, 2014, 3:55 pm
Thanks for your insights, Cristian.

From my limited contact with Spaniards, they seem to look down on all the Latinoamericano accents - very similar to how Parisians look down on the Québecois accent (which I honestly don't particularly care for either - although I do love Québec and the people / culture there...). On the flip side, the Québecois very much esteem the Parisian accent - which tracks pretty closely to your comments regarding Mexico and Spain.

Personally I don't really care much for the Spain accent: too "lispy".
"Vivo por ella" / Italiano
Dan-H24 August 27, 2014, 4:24 pm
I agree with your last comment, Steven. If I lived in Spain I would have to find a different beverage to drink. Thervetha just sounds wrong!
"Vivo por ella" / Italiano
Cristian-Montes-de-Oca August 27, 2014, 4:54 pm

hahaha! "lipsy'

That "lipsy" sound is called "seseo". All the S and Z are pronounced in a very lipsy way.

Thervetha!
"Vivo por ella" / Italiano

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