Forum Rocket Spanish Spanish - Grammar on an example in 4.9 Indirect pronouns

on an example in 4.9 Indirect pronouns

rizhaider

"Lupe está hablando con nosotros."

No pronoun is used in this example. Was this meant be nos instead of nosotros?
 

ricardo-rich

Hola rizhaider,

Nosotros is a pronoun "con nosotros" with us. As you likely know, nosotros can be be "we" but in this case it's "us" the object of a preposition. Nos can be a direct, indirect or reflexive pronoun depending on usage.

Saludos,

Ricardo

rizhaider

Many thanks Ricardo,
I was mistakenly under the impression that when a list of indirect pronouns is given in a lesson, as in 4.9, that it is a complete list. Rocket is terrible with grammar! 
 

rizhaider

i just realized one thing is still unclear, was nosotros used in this instance because of the 'con' (with) preceding it, as you might be suggesting. If not, then why wasn't 'nos' used

ricardo-rich

De nada rishaider,

  Yes, it's  because of  the preposition "con". Nosotros is a prepositional pronoun in this case, the object of the prepositional phrase " with us".   Con "nos" is incorrect.

Saludos
Ricardo

 

Dan-H24

I was waiting for Ricardo or Steven to weigh in to completely answer this question. I knew that  "Lupe está hablando con nos" was not correct. It just sounded wrong but I could not adequately explain why nosotros was used. So ¡graciás, Ricardo!

rizhaider, I think your condemnation of the grammar lessons here at RS is a little harsh. Grammar is, in my opinion, the most difficult part of learning a new language. You should invest in some good grammar books to get more complete explanations, or take lessons from a live tutor to whom you can ask questions.

"You don't learn language from grammar, you learn grammar from language." - a new favorite quote.

I don't mean to lecture you, just expressing my opinion.
Dan

rizhaider

I take it it in the spirit it was given. Thanks.

The crux of my question still begs an answer. So let me try and re-phrase it.

Lesson 4.9 is on 'indirect pronouns'.
Question 1. Is 'nosotros' as used here an indirect pronoun? y/n
Question 2. If it is, then my quibble about Rocket stands because the list of indirect pronouns given in 4.9 did not include 'nosotros' as an indirect pronoun nor any indication  that it's not a complete list.
Question 3. If it is not an indirect pronoun then why include it in a lesson on indirect  pronouns. quibble!
Hopefully not harsh anymore,

Dan-H24

I believe that nosotros is a subject pronoun, not an indirect object pronoun.
I really don't know why this sentence is here. It looks like a simple SVO sentence to me.  I tried to rework it using an IOP, but couldn't do it. I strugged with IOPs when I did this lesson, and struggle with them today. 

rizhaider

Do you know a way to convey this to Rocket. 

the-hefay

"Lupe está hablando con nosotros."

The subject is Lupe.
​The object is nosotros.
​It's indirect becuase you don't talk someone. You talk with or to someone, or in this case, us.

​"Lupe está hablándonos." o "Lupe está hablándonos a nosotros."

​I think this would be more along the lines of ​Lupe is talking at us or to us.​  But I'm not positive.

​Like Ricardo said, with con​ or after any preposition, you use nosotros.

the-hefay

Here's a link to a layout of the pronouns as used in different situations.  Towards the right is the column that has the list of pronouns to be used after a preposition.

http://users.ipfw.edu/jehle/courses/pronouns.htm

​I agree with Dan about learning grammar.  It's not the easiest part of learning Spanish. One recommendation I have for RS is that they would make up some charts like the one in the link.  It just seems like a good reference tool to have around when learning and it wouldn't be too much effort to add a small grammar reference section with a few basic rules and charts.  Just my 2¢.

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