Forum Rocket Japanese Japanese Grammar Japanese 10.3 passive form of suru, female/teinego/male plain

Japanese 10.3 passive form of suru, female/teinego/male plain

Hnrutt

Hnrutt

So Chūrin-ihan de jitensha ga tekkyo sarechattano. is female speech, passive. Would the teinego form be Chūrin-ihan de jitensha ga tekkyo saremashita and the plain male form be Chūrin-ihan de jitensha ga tekkyo sareta Is there a 'male equivalent' to the -chatta no ending with its nuances? ?
Pascal-P

Pascal-P

Chau is derived as a contraction of ~te shimau, which is the structure that conveys the regret associated with chau, can be used by anybody, and is probably the closest to a male/proper equivalent. (chau is considered childish). Your suggestions for teinego and plain male form do not account for a form of "chau". Teinego would most likely be "...ga tekkyo sarete shimaimashita". Male would be "...ga tekkyo sarete shimatta".
Hnrutt

Hnrutt

Ok, thanks - I'm now totally confused with conflicting information on male/female usage of this. The lesson is very explicit that -chatta no is very informal, used by women & children & can sound childish. Taro, male, uses the -no question ending twice, so it would seem to be the -chatta bit that is 'female' etc. But my (female) native speaker friend says the - no ending is the 'female bit' ..... She is quite happy with me using 'Chūrin-ihan de jitensha ga tekkyo saremashita' as a teineigo form of 'Chūrin-ihan de jitensha ga tekkyo sarechattano. ' She suggests 'Churin-ihan de jitensha ga tekkyo sarechatta yo' for a plain male form - but the lesson has 'yo' explicity as female.....................I'm sure I've come across -yo endings from males though for emphasis. I think it might be simpler to be hermaphrodite :-) Sarete shimatta/shimaimashita ........-te form of the passive form of suru, sareru, ichidan, and plain past/teineigo of shimau..... didn't know that construction (I think Kenny does quickly say it in the lesson) or shimau, that clarifies that at least! I assume it can be generalized? - tabete shimatta, (flat) finished eating, tabete shimatta (rising) or tabete shimatta no have you finished eating - but the latter possibly 'girly'!
Hnrutt

Hnrutt

I talked to two male native Japanese speakers at lunch. They both agreed that -chatta and chau can be used by anyone (but are very informal) which disagrees with the lesson :-(. Also: - yo : anyone - no yo : very definitely female - zo : very definitely male - no ending a plain question: bit of disagreement & confusion, yes women say that, I might say that, but....perhaps the more junior, younger one was more inclined to say he'd use it & the older more senior a bit less. They were both OK with 'Chūrin-ihan de jitensha ga tekkyo saremashita' as the teineigo form.
Pascal-P

Pascal-P

The "no" bit is female speech when it softens the end of a statement. When it indicates an informal question, it can be used by anyone. "Sarechattano" contains "chau" which indicates regret. So you need some form of "chau" in whatever level of speech you use. While "..saremashita" is grammatically correct, it doesn't convey all the nuance associated with "chau".
Hnrutt

Hnrutt

Ah ok, my contacts & tutor weren't taking care over that nuance! I'd better double check 'no' distinction with my two colleagues; I *thought* they explicitly said they would use it to 'just soften' not only to ask a plain question, but maybe they didnt get the precise question I was asking.

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