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Spanish Premium Plus Lesson 10.2 Chilean History

Diana-dep1

Diana-dep1

Hi, This is only a technical correction, but I the lesson says that Christopher Columbus was Spanish, when he was actually Italian.  He sailed for the Spanish queen Isabella so maybe that is where the confusion begins.  In the U.S., Columbus Day is a huge celebration by Italian Americans.  I am not Italian, so I don't have a dog in this fight, but would like to see a correct presentation of the history.  Thank you!
Dan-H24

Dan-H24

Diana: I agree with you that historical accuracy is important.

Last December I was in Cuba, which, you may know, was one of the islands that Columbus visited on his first voyage to the New World. During the part of the trip that my group was away from Havana, we were accompanied by a senior guide from Paradiso, the state-owned tourist agency. On the way out of Havana on the bus she got on the microphone and began giving us the history of Cuba, starting with "the Spaniard Christopher Columbus 'discovered' Cuba in 1492." She was promptly corrected by a chorus of "Columbus was ITALIAN not Spanish," with at least one of our group insisting that he was Portugese. Apparently mistaking Columbus' country of birth is common.

And, inasmuch as Columbus believed he had found India...or China...or maybe Japan, I guess it is one of those delicious ironies.
Ava Dawn

Ava Dawn

I thought all this time he was Portuguese. The Spanish Royals just funded his adventures. I'll google his life just to learn more.
Dan-H24

Dan-H24

Aurora: you will find that Columbus was not the great hero that we all learned in school. But the same can be said for many famous people from history. I hope that they are teaching a more balanced perspective in school these days.
ricardo-rich

ricardo-rich

Hola a todos,

Years ago when I was in the Navy, we visited  Genoa, which is the largest seaport in Italy. There is a Columbus monument there, as he was from Genoa.

Saludos,

Ricardo
Cristian-Montes-de-Oca

Cristian-Montes-de-Oca

Hola,

Christopher Columbus,Christophorus Columbus, Cristóforo Colombo, Cristobál Colón or Cristovao Colombo...well, most scholars consider him to be Italian, from Genoa, but there is a lot of controversy regarding its birth place, and even his birthday. One of the main things I heard fired up this controversy is the fact that everything he wrote was not in Genoese dialect (his native tounge) and since he learned latin, castilian and portuguese, (and perphaps even Catalan), and also the fact that he got financed by the Spanish Catholic Kings (Isabella and Fernando), he lived in Spain and Portugal (and the new world), but there is little evidence he lived in Italy, and also because of these claims that I found on the web
  • The Genoese ambassadors present in Barcelona in 1493 on Columbus' return don't refer to him as a fellow citizen;
  • In the 16th century, there were no claimants from Genoa for Columbus' fortune.
  • Columbus' royal patrons never referred to his nationality, as was done with other foreigners (such as Amerigo Vespucci);
  • Columbus' first biographer, his son Hernando, indicated that Columbus wanted to leave his origins in obscurity.
So, the official version is Genoa, Italy hahaha

In México we celebrate the 12th of October as "El descubrimiento de América", but not precisely Colombus itself. 

Saludos!
 
ricardo-rich

ricardo-rich

Hola Cristian,

¡Eso es muy interesante!

Saludos,

Ricardo
Steven-W15

Steven-W15

Hola Cristian,

Hay una lección en el curso sobre las relaciones entre América latina y España.  Dice que en Latinoamérica, Cristóbal Colón no es un héroe y que en muchos países, en vez de celebrar el Día de Colón (o el Día del descubrimiento de América como dices), celebran el Día de la Raza por ejemplo. ¿Has entendido de esta manera de nombrar el 12 de octubre?

¡Gracias por la historia sobre el origen de Colón! Estoy de acuerdo con Ricardo - fue muy interesante.

Saludos,

Steven
Cristian-Montes-de-Oca

Cristian-Montes-de-Oca

Muy bien Steven!

Aquí en México algunos lo llaman El día de la Raza, commemorating the first encounters of Europeans and Native Americans

This was adopted by many latinamerican countries, ( with other similar names as "El encuentro entre dos mundos" or "Dia del respeto a la diversidad cultural", etc) mainly because, and I qoute..."The cruel treatment towards indigenous peoples during the European colonization of the American continents which followed Columbus's discovery" , so, basically it is a opossition name, versus Columbus Day. 

 
Dan-H24

Dan-H24

When I decided to learn Spanish I never realized how much my life would be enriched in other ways. Like most estadounidenses, I learned in grade school the sanitized version of Columbus "discovery" of America. And of course, later in my education I learned how cruel the Europeans were to the people that were here before them. But I don't think that I ever really thought hard about the effects that colonization had on the people that were already here, until I began learning Spanish. I talk with my Peruvian tutor and am reminded of her Incan ancestors, and how they, the Mayans, the Aztecs, and others suffered at the hands of the conquistadores. I learn of the history of Cuba and realize that the entire Taino people were virtually eradicated from their island, only to be replaced by Africans kidnapped and sold into slavery.

 
Cristian-Montes-de-Oca

Cristian-Montes-de-Oca

Hola amigos

Dan, thanks for your comment,

I am glad that people here are learning than just a new language, but also about some history, culture, food and more things about spanish speaking countries.

I know I have learn a lot of new things, including new things about my own native language!.

Saludos!
Dan-H24

Dan-H24

Christian: As a lifelong lover of history, I used to be a huge James Michener fan. I read every book of his as soon as it came out. In the last year I reread his "Carribean," mostly to learn some more about the early history of Cuba, but I learned much about slavery and colonization as well.

And I recently read a book about Black Bart, a famous pirate of the 18th century. The book showed how the trade winds that go up the east coast of the United States, then across the Atlantic to England, then down to Africa, and finally across the southern Atlantic to the Carribean were used to ship sugar to England where it was sold for gold, which was taken to Africa and used to buy slaves, which were taken to the Carribean and sold for sugar, and so forth in an evil cycle. The book asserted that the piracy of the time interfered with this cycle and made the slave trade less successful than it would have been otherwise.
Diana-dep1

Diana-dep1

Dan H24 - One of my favorite books is Caribbean by Michener.  This book doesn't paint a rosy picture about the conquerers.  Apparently, Cristobal Colon was not a very good manager of Hispanola and was sent back to Spain in the bottom of a ship in chains.  How los indigenas were treated was awful enough, but the subsequent history with slavery there is just as bad.  Interesting and sad, at the same time.
Dan-H24

Dan-H24

Diana: no, the book certainly does not. A far different story than we were taught in school.

Colon was not a very good ship Captain either, since he stole credit for being the first to spot land in the New World from one of his sailors, along with the prize promised by Isabella.

Nor was he a good navigator, since he was sure that he was in China. Or maybe India.

One wonders what he was good at, other than as a salesman able to convince the Spanish Crown to finance his explorations.

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