Corrections in Lesson 14.1

PaulS108

PaulS108

Hallo Julia,

I would suggest the following corrections in Lesson 14.1:

Currently: Das beste ist das riesige Festmal.
Recommended: Das Beste ist das riesige Festmal.

Currently: Glühwein ist sowieso das beste an Weihnachten.
Recommended: Glühwein ist sowieso das Beste an Weihnachten.
 
Currently: Mulled wine is the best thing about Christmas.
Recommended: Mulled wine is obviously/unquestionably the best thing about Christmas.
Comment: The word "sowieso" in the German sentence was unnecessarily omitted from the English translation. 

Currently: It's definitely a pleasant time. It gets dark early and sometimes there is snow. We light candles and spend time with family.
Recommended: It's definitely a pleasant time. It gets dark early and sometimes there is even snow. We light candles and spend time with family.
Comment: The word "sogar" in the German sentence was unnecessarily omitted in the English translation.  

Current: Okay, Wir werden das von der Werbeabteilung nochmal analysieren lassen und unsere Voransgehensweise überarbeiten.
Recommended: Okay, Wir werden das von der Werbeabteilung nochmal analysieren lassen und unsere Vorgehensweise überarbeiten.
Comment: In lesson 13.4, we were taught "Vorgehensweise". In this lesson, it appears as "Voransgehensweise" (even in the verbal portion of the lesson). I was unable to find the latter word in the dictionary, even as an alternative to the former. It appears that the spelling "Voransgehensweise" was in error.

Mit besten Grüßen,
Paul

   

 
Julia-Rocket-German-Tutor

Julia-Rocket-German-Tutor

Hallo PaulS108,

thank you very much for your feedback. I will pass this on to our development team. 

As a side note, "Vorgehensweise" and "Vorangehensweise" both mean "approach". However, "Vorangehensweise" is the least common of the two which is probably why you had trouble finding it in the dictionary. Our apologies if this has caused any inconvenience or confusion. 

Beste Grüße
Julia
sfpugh

sfpugh

Hi Julia
I wonder if you could explain a little more about beste/Beste.
I noticed that Duden's proofreader found no error in:
Das beste ist das riesige Festmahl
If you turn it round, Das riesige Festmahl ist das beste is also OK with Duden.

But it did flag beste as an error in:
Glühwein ist sowieso das beste an Weihnachten.
I know Duden is not infallible, but is it right?
I guess it comes down to is Beste an adjectival noun or is it an adjective?
 
PaulS108

PaulS108

Hi Simon,

Just weighing in here regarding my understanding of beste/Beste. 

I believe that in BOTH of the examples above, "beste" should be corrected to "Beste":
"Das Beste ist das riesige Festmahl."
"Glühwein ist sowieso das Beste an Weihnachten."

In lesson 14.1, the topic being discussed is Christmas and how Christmas is celebrated. In this context, "das Beste" in the above examples is translated as "the best thing" because the reference is to "the best thing about celebrating Christmas". This would also categorise "das Beste" in German as an adjectival noun, and it would therefore be capitalised.

The word "beste" can function as an adjective in the case where it refers to the same noun that appears elsewhere in the sentence. For example:
German: Von allen Gerichten auf der Speisekarte war das Schnitzel das beste." 
English: Of all the dishes on the menu, the schnitzel was the best (of all the dishes).
 
On the other hand, if the above sentence were broken down into two independent sentences, e.g. "There are many dishes on the menu." and "The schnitzel was the best".,  I believe that "das beste" as an adjective would then become the adjectival noun "das Beste":
German Sentence 1: Es gibt viele Gerichte auf der Speisekarte.
German Sentence 2: Das Schnitzel war das Beste. 
 
I trust that Julia will shed light on this for both of us.

Best Regards. 
sfpugh

sfpugh

Hi Paul
Yes that's the thing, in the phrase:
"Das Beste ist das riesige Festmahl.
Is Beste referring to the Festmahl?
Or is it separate as in  "The best thing is the feast". There doesn't seem to be a preceding noun which is implied, so I think the Duden grammar checker is probably wrong here.
 
Julia-Rocket-German-Tutor

Julia-Rocket-German-Tutor

Hallo PaulS108 und sfpugh,

I agree with PaulS108, when beste comes after a definite article and doesn't refer to a noun directly it becomes a nominalised adjective and should be capitalised, e.g.
"Das Beste ist..." - "The best thing is...".
"Das Beste ist das riesige Festmahl. - "The best thing is the big festive meal."

Usually adjectives appear in front of a noun and need to be written lower case, e.g.
"das beste Auto" - "the best car".
"Das ist das beste Buch was ich jemals gelesen habe." - "That is the best book I have ever read."

In some cases the adjective is placed in a different position in the sentence but has a direct connection to the noun they are modifying, such as
"Dieses Auto ist das beste (von allen)." - "This car is the best (of all)."
or your example above
"​Von allen Gerichten auf der Speisekarte war das Schnitzel das beste (von allen)." - "Of all the dishes on the menu, the schnitzel was the best (of all)."

 I hope this helps!

Viele Grüße
Julia
 
sfpugh

sfpugh

Hi Julia
You have put your finger on my confusion:
Das riesige Festmahl ist das beste  looks very like Dieses Auto ist das beste
what makes these sentences different, is it dieses?
And my sentences is just Das Beste ist das riesige Festmahl turned around.
How about Das beste ist dieses Auto? But here Auto does not precede beste.
Thank you
Simon
PaulS108

PaulS108

Simon -

Forgive me for continuing to "put in my two cents worth", but I believe that I understand your confusion, so I would add the examples below, which I believe may clarify the matter.

If the sentence is intended to mean that the Christmas festive meal is the best of all the festive meals throughout the year, then the German sentence would read: 
"Das Festmahl an Weihnachten ist das beste." 
This is due to the fact that "das beste" in this case modifies the same noun that appears previously in the sentence.

If, however, the sentence is intended to mean that the Christmas festive meal is the best thing about Christmas, then the German sentence would read:
"Das Festmahl an Weihnachten ist das Beste."
In this case, "das Beste" does not modify the noun "Festmahl" and has no direct reference to a noun in the sentence, and therefore causing it to be an adjectival noun. 

The same concept would be applied to your question regarding the noun "Auto".
Does that help in answering your question? 

Paul
sfpugh

sfpugh

Hi Paul, I see what you are saying and in the context of the lesson, interpreting Beste  as the "best thing (about Christmas)" is the probable intended meaning, but grammatically it could also be The feast at Christmas is the best (feast). I expect this why Duden did not flag it as an error. 
Julia-Rocket-German-Tutor

Julia-Rocket-German-Tutor

Hallo nochmal,

Yes there is a very fine line - sometimes both das beste and das Beste can be correct and I apologise if I have caused more confusion than clarification for that matter.

The general rule for determining whether an adjective is used as a noun or not is if the adjective refers to or modifies a noun in the same sentence directly. So if there is a direct reference it should be written lowercase - and if there is no connection and it is declined/follows an article, it should then be capitalised.

To clarify: "Das Festmahl an Weihnachten ist das beste." and "Das Festmahl an Weihnachten ist das Beste." are both correct and I agree with PaulS108's well written explanation above.

Usually when starting a sentence with "Das Beste ist..." the intended meaning would generally be something like "The best thing/bet is...(to)"  so there wouldn't be a direct reference to another noun in the sentence.

I hope you will find this helpful!

Viele Grüße
Julia
sfpugh

sfpugh

Thank you Julia
I think I have this clear in my head now, although I am not sure if I am ready use this in my own sentences yet. :-)

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