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Bis take accusative but what about Bis zum Morgen grauen

sfpugh August 10, 2017, 10:21 am
In module 20.5 there are some examples of prepositions that take the accusative. But the first example is this:
Bis / Bis zum Morgen grauen
Until / Until dawn

Isn't zum short for zu dem - dative?
What is going on here?
 
Bis take accusative but what about Bis zum Morgen grauen
sfpugh August 11, 2017, 10:41 am
I still don't understand this.
In Bis zum Morgen grauen, graunen could be acc or dat since morgen is masculine, but in Bis zum nächten Mal,   nächten  must be dat as Mal is neuter so I assume grauen is also dat. How is this an example of bis taking the accusative?
Bis take accusative but what about Bis zum Morgen grauen
Lucia - Rocket Languages Tutor August 13, 2017, 6:59 pm
Hi sfpugh,

Zu can only take the dative case (there's a catchphrase that goes "Von AusBeiMit nach SeitVonZu, fährst immer mit dem Dativ du").

Bis, however, can only take the accusative, but many times it is combined with zu, and it is this last preposition that governs the following elements in the sentence.

I hope this helps!

Lucia
Bis take accusative but what about Bis zum Morgen grauen
sfpugh August 14, 2017, 6:47 am
Ok, thanks I get it it but... how is it an example of bis taking the accusative. Surely it would be better to find a simple example or at least to explain what is going on in this example is used.
Bis take accusative but what about Bis zum Morgen grauen

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