Dative tense 6.3 Grammar lesson

Dear Nathalie, Wie geht's? I have a query about 6.3 Dative tense. The second example on page 2 is: Der Frau gefallt das Hotel. "Der Frau" is underlined as the indirect object. Can you please explain this because by the reasoning for nominative she should be the subject (and my Mum, an English teacher, cant work it out either). Also: Paul tanzt mit Julia (Julia is the IO?) Nik spricht mit Paul (Paul is the IO?) Dem Mann gefallt nicht das Hotel (Dem Mann???). Ich brauche Hilfe bitte!! Mit freundlichen Grüßen, :D Martha

Hi Martha, mir geht's gut, danke! The Cases are not the easiest topic for a native English speaker to learn, simply because English doesn't use Cases the way they are used in German. So not only do you have to learn the rules and exceptions, but also a whole new concept. But there is a light at the end of the tunnel. The articles can give you a clue to what the Case is. Nominative Accusative Dative der den dem (Masculine) die die der (Feminine) das das dem (Neuter) In the example you mentioned the article used for "Frau" is "der", so "der Frau" is Dative. You can also ask the question "Wem (whom) gefällt das Hotel?" And the answer is "der Frau". The nice thing about the cases is that they give you more flexibility in terms of word order. You could also say : "Das Hotel gefällt der Frau". The cases show which words belong together, so that the sentence makes sense. In English this doesn't really work, that's why this might feel a little strange. It's the same with "Dem Mann gefällt das Hotel nicht". You could also say "Das Hotle gefällt dem Mann nicht" and still the article that is in front of "Mann" shows that it is Dative and therefore you know that it is the hotel that the man doesn't like and not the other way around. If you are unsure about the gender of a noun it is always helpful to use the question words that the cases have (please refer to the grammar chapters). Let's take the next example: Nik spricht mit Paul With whom does Nik talk? With Paul. So Paul is Dative. I hope that helps you a little. Please feel free to ask as many questions as you like. :D Nathalie

Dear Nathalie, Many thanks for your response. I think I'm beginning to understand the concept of the tenses (as long as you have the case correct you can tell who is "doing the feeling" and to whom/what the feeling is being directed despite the word order?) but your explanation has prompted more questions in my mind. Sie isst den Kuchen. She eats the cake. "She" is the subject. "Den Kuchen" is the object. So we use the nominative case for the subject and accusative for the oject in this example. What I can't grasp is that in the following sentence Der Frau gefallt das Hotel. "Der Frau" is dative and I presume "das Hotel" is Accusative like "den Kuchen". Why, with both these examples is she/der Frau a different case? Nominative in the first example and Dative in the second. Ich kann nicht verstanden! Martha

Hi Martha, the topic "Cases" is indeed very complex. You are right with your explanation: "as long as you have the case correct you can tell who is "doing the feeling" and to whom/what the feeling is being directed despite the word order". No matter how you change the word order the sentence still makes sense if you use the right "case". There is one famous example that most teachers use when trying to explain the different cases and why they are useful: Der Hund beißt den Mann. The dog bites the man. Den Mann beißt der Hund. *The man bites the dog?* (The dog bites the man.) Beißt der Hund den Mann? Is the dog biting the man? Beißt den Mann der Hund? *Is the man is biting the dog?* (Is the dog biting the man?) As you don't use "cases" in English in the same way you do in German you have less flexibility in regards to the word order. In German you can easily move the words around to emphasize them more. In English that would actually change the meaning, like in the example above, where suddenly the dog is the one who gets bitten. Now, there are a few verbs (action words) that usually use the dative, for example "gefallen", "antworten", "verzeihen". In the example you mentioned "Sie isst den Kuchen", "Sie" is Nominative and "den Kuchen" is Accusative. "Der Frau gefällt das Hotel", "der Frau" is Dative, because the verb "gefallen" goes with Dative. Let's change "gefallen" to "mögen", which also means "to like". "Die Frau mag das Hotel" = "The woman likes the hotel" "Die Frau" is now Nominative. "danken", "fehlen", "folgen", "gehören", "glauben", "helfen", "passieren", "verzeihen" and "wehtun" also go with the Dative. Once you feel comfortable with the general concept of the cases you will easily be able to spot the exceptions. I hope that helps :D

Dear Nathalie, A very belated thank you for your explanation of the dative tense and the verbs that go with it. Gefallen is an exception I found confusing in the grammar material. I think I've worked out a way of remembering the dative verbs and that is the verb is being done "to you" or "to something". So it's pleasing TO me, or I give thanks TO you. Not long now till I arrive in Switzerland, then my Deutsch use will increase exponentially I'm sure. Thanks again and apologies for the belated response. Martha

Hi Martha, thank you for your response. I wouldn't mind going to Switzerland as well. You will see that the more you use your German skills the more natural it will feel. One day soon you won't even have to think about dative, accusative etc. It will all be part of your natural communication. Have a great time!