Indirect Pronouns

ThereseM4

Is this a good example of an indirect pronoun: No les voy a invitar a la fiesta? (See Language & Colture 4.9.)

ThereseM4

In "No les voy a invitar a la fiesta," I think them is a direct object.

the-hefay

Les  is always an indirect object pronoun.  As far as using it in this context, I've seen IOs and DOs used with invitar.  I'm unsure which would be correct.  That would be a question for one of the experts floating around here.
 

the-hefay

I do agree that it seems to be more like a DO in this usage.

Steven-W15

Identifying grammatical components like IOs and DOs isn't my thing. Dan and Ricardo are usually pretty good at this.
 

yademas

Looking forward to a definitive answer on this.  Anyone?  LOL.  
I keep wondering if it has something to do with the dual verbs (Voy a invitar).  "Voy" pertains more to "yo" and the "invitar" action is directed towards "them"?  Probably not.  Just trying to figure it out.  

ricardo-rich

Hola a todos,
Pues, no soy experto . It's an IO "them" but it is sometimes used as a DO in Spain.
Saludos,
Ricardo

Dan-H24

Esteban es demasiado simpatico decir que soy bueno para identificar DOs y IO. ¡Soy estupido en eso!

En referencia al comentario de Yadamas:  LOL es REVA en español, ¿no?

yademas

You know, in that same lesson (4.9 Indirect Object Pronouns) there's another similar example that throws me, and it has a similar construction:

Le voy a llamar a Juan mañana.
(I) am going to call Juan tomorrow.

My brain wants to identify Juan as the DO, because he is receiving the action of the verb llamar.  
I really think it has something to do with adding "voy" to the mix.  Once you add "voy", "llamar" becomes the DO, and pushes Juan to IO.  
If you take out voy, and just say, "I'll call him tomorrow", "him" reverts to being the DO.  "Lo llamaré mañana."
Or in the original example in this post, once you add "voy", "invitar" becomes the DO, and pushes  Pedro y Ernesto to IO status.  
Again, remove "voy", and "them" becomes the DO.  "No los invitaré a la fiesta".  

I am completely speculating--just trying to see it in a way makes sense in my brain--so please do not hesitate to tell me that I'm completely off base.  

ricardo-rich

Hola Yademas,

Juan is the IO and "le" is the redundant IO pronoun which is used for clarity or emphasis and "cause it's Spanish and that's the way it's done. Smile. It's incomplete to say "Doy el libro a Juan." " Le doy el libro a Juan." is correct. As to removing voy in your example, I'm unclear about this and perhaps someone else will help.
Saludos,
Ricardo

the-hefay

Yademas, I understand exactly what you are suggesting about adding voy.  It's a very interesting point.  You are correct in saying that DO's are used with llamar.  My grammar teacher in Peru was very clear about that saying that although it's common in Peru to her "le llamo" it is grammatically incorrect.  Adding ir to the phrase…. I can't really say.

The truth is that I have never been misunderstood when using IO's and DO's and so I think that while there is a right and a wrong, you usually won't get into trouble or laughed off the stage for confusing them.  Just my experience.
 

Steven-W15

I'll just throw in my two bits with Jeff and Ricardo... As I've moved along in the learning process, I recognize that there is a certain level of "finesse" that I'm simply incapable of grasping at a given point in time: some get resolved, others not yet. Certain examples of IOs and DOs fall into the former category. Hopefully it'll fall into place in time.
 

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