si + subjunctivo

Steven-W15

Steven-W15

Is it true that the only place where "Si..." is not followed by a verb in the subjunctive is when "cuando" can be substituted for "si"?
- Si sumas dos más dos, tienes cuatro.
- Cuando sumas dos más dos, tienes cuatro. 

A verb in the indicative tense works after “si” if talking about the present/future, but even then the subjunctive could be equally employed (with the same meaning?):
- Si salgo ahora, llegaré a la hora. If I leave now, I will arrive on time.
- Si saliera ahora, llegaría a la hora. If I were to leave now, I would arrive on time.

Ava Dawn

Ava Dawn

I am just starting on the basics of subjunctives in the beginning lessons of the Platinum level. I am very interested in learning more.

Robert-C7

Robert-C7

I have seen this pattern: if [Imperfect Subjunctive], then [Conditional].

Si comiera antes, no tendría hambre.
If I ate earlier, I would not be hungry.

-or-

Si yo hubiera comido, yo no estaría hambre.
If I had eaten, I would not be hungry.

I think subjunctive is called for because I am speculating what could have happened if I had done something different.  It is interesting that the subjunctive somes first followed by a conditional expression.

ricardo-rich

ricardo-rich

Hola a todos,

The conditional can come first followed by the subjunctive as well, depending on the situation. Por ejemplo: Ella habría contratado músicos para la fiesta si tuviera el dinero.  If what follow the conditional is pero, then the impefect indicative is used. Ella habría contratado músicos para la fiesta pero no tenía el dinero. And of course in the latter, the conditional comes first. If the sentence is, Si hubiera tenido el dinero....(past perfect subjunctive) then the conditional follows.

 

Saludos,

Ricardo

 

 

ricardo-rich

ricardo-rich

Hola a todos,

More about the subjuncitve in  the past and conditional using si. The following is from the free lessons that were available a couple of years ago  from La Casa Rojas.. "Si hubiera sabido que ibas al mercado, te hubiera dicho que compraras uvas". This was explained as moments when, If I had known I would have said,told, etc" If I had known you were goiing  to the market I would have told you to buy grapes." Another more colloquial expression was offered for "had I known", "De haberlo sabido". Luis Rojas is from Argentina and I don't know if that is regional.

Saludos,

Ricardo

Steven-W15

Steven-W15

Good discussion. Thanks. So going back to my original question/conjecture, would you say that it's accurate or is there something more?

ricardo-rich

ricardo-rich

Hola Steven,

Just my subjective take, (groan, couldn't resist) to me employing the subjunctive does not convey the same meaning. The first seems like OK! If I leave now I will arrive on time. The second one is somewhat speculative, hypothetical etc. I did some searches and some sources say si is never followed by the present subjunctive while others say only in rare cases, as does the link below, though it doesn't give examples of such cases. Regarding cuando and si, that seems right, couldn't say if it's the only time the subjunctive is not used.  I probably haven't been of much help here.

http://spanish.about.com/od/verbs/qt/si_clause.htm 

Saludos,

Ricardo

Ava Dawn

Ava Dawn

Actually for me, all of your sentences look and sound good. I wish I have the confidence to use them. I think any of them would impress my latina friends.

Steven-W15

Steven-W15

Hola Ricardo,

Thanks for your subjective take on this (smile). My gut feeling also is that "si" would never be followed by a subjunctive in the present - only in the imperfect or perfect. How about the following - an example of "si" followed by a non-subjunctive tense:
- Quería saber mi nivel en español, si tenía fluidez en el idioma.

Does "tenía" work there or would it likewise have to be "tuviera"?

Saludos,

Steven

marieg-rocket languages

marieg-rocket languages

Hi Steven-W15!

The example above is quite good, in this case, as you mentioned, the right verb is "tenía".

"Tuviera" would be used in a different context like: "Si tuviera fluidez, preguntaría por mi nivel de español". - If I were fluent, I'd ask for my level in Spanish.

I hope this helps! Great topic!

ricardo-rich

ricardo-rich

Hola Steven,

I was unsure about  your last question and it's good that Marie has offered her help. Regarding the conditional, shouldn't this be querríaQueria is the imperfect. I hope Marie will continue to help us and that the forum stays active. After many years of activity the LSLC forum is pretty much dead and I miss it. I really enjoy our interaction here, all of us trying to help each other, and I hope it continues..

Saludos,

Ricardo

Steven-W15

Steven-W15

Hola Marie y Ricardo,

Many thanks for your help! I should have given more context. Imagine someone in the present is asking me why I'm joining a Spanish conversation group. I could respond with, "I want to know my level in Spanish, if/whether I'm fluent or not." But I could equally phrase this in the past but still address the present (and hence why the phrase had a different "feel" for me), "I was wanting to know my level in Spanish, if I was fluent or not." Perhaps it doesn't make a difference since it involves a hypothetical / degree of speculation and hence the use of the subjunctive.

Saludos,

Steven

marieg-rocket languages

marieg-rocket languages

Hi! It is definitely the same, the message is the same, just like in English; saying the same sentence in different words and choosing a different tense. :)

"Quiero saber mi nivel de español, si tengo fluidez o no."

"Quería saber mi nivel de español, si tenía fluidez o no."

Steven-W15

Steven-W15

Perfecto! That is just what I was hoping to hear. It's very encouraging to start getting a feel for some of the more subtle aspects of a language.

Ava Dawn

Ava Dawn

This is what I have been asking for. Thanks, Marie. I really appreciate having a tutor in this forum. I can't wait to be at a level where I could express things in different ways and still be correct.

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