Forum Rocket Spanish Spanish - Grammar When the subject in the sentence is the same...

When the subject in the sentence is the same...

Steven-W15

Steven-W15

"...a obligarlo a que pidiera dinero a extraños." I always appreciate the opportunity to practice the subjunctive. But wouldn't this phrase be better said as follows: "...a obligarlo a pider dinero a extraños."
Ava Dawn

Ava Dawn

Do we have Spanish teachers around as resources for questions like this? I looked at both phrases and I don't have any idea. Maybe obligarlo is required it, a is to, dinero is money, que is what, extranos maybe is not necessary. It looks like a very good phrase.
Cristian-Montes-de-Oca

Cristian-Montes-de-Oca

Hola! Both sentences are correct. You mixed letters on that last one "pider" instead of "pedir". "(You)ordered (him//it) to ask for money to strangers"..is that what you were trying to say in english? If so, then both sound good to me. I am no teacher, but I come here to the forum as much as I can to help people learning spanish, since I'm a native spanish speaker from Mexico, so don't be shy to ask! Que tengan un buen dia! (And I hope none of you is sending someone to ask for money to strangers haha)
Ava Dawn

Ava Dawn

Gracias Christian. I just go to the lessons and acquire a lot of points but I wish I have local Spanish speakers who would ask me simple questions aside from "Como estas" and help with the answer. I could actually memorize some of the conversation scripts and ended up talking as Amy and Mauricio at the same time just to show off to my co-workers.
Cristian-Montes-de-Oca

Cristian-Montes-de-Oca

That's sounds great! I do the same things with rocket german conversations between Nik and Paul. If you have any questions , I will be more than happy to help you amigos! :D And we can start converstations or variatons of the original conversations from your course. Have a great day! Saludos desde Baja California, Mexico!
Edwyn-G

Edwyn-G

Hi Christian que tal? I find the distinguishing of whom one is talking about with le before a verb quite hard in Spanish. I guess one uses a qualifier after the verb to distinguish between you, he. she or is it what a native Spanish speaker does?; but doesn't this make for long convoluted sentences? How do native speakers know? Context? Or do you used qualifiers a lot? I am very interested in vernacular phrases you guys use. I have learned in Spanish in many places in Latin America, from Chile to Costa Rica Cuba and Guatemala. Cuba was very hard- Bolivia was the easiest along with Cuba. I am Australian
Edwyn-G

Edwyn-G

I meant along with Peru not Cuba. Cuba was the hardest. I met Mexicans there who said it is hard for them too.
Dan-H24

Dan-H24

Edwyn: what is it that makes you say Cuba is the most difficult? I was in Cuba last year but spoke very little Spanish then. I want to go back when I have learned to communicate at least somewhat in Spanish, so I am interested in the problems I will face. I know some Cubans here with whom I speak but I am not experienced enough to spot the differences between Spanish speakers from different countries.
Edwyn-G

Edwyn-G

Hi Dan. I found it hard to understand anything at all. They speak very slang and miss consonants especially "s". I met an American Spanish teacher at the airport who said she found it hard there and this was one of her many visits. I am not good enough at Spanish to claim to be authoritative but it was about the 7th Latin American country for me and I understood less than usual. My wife whose comprehension is better than mine said it wasn't as bad as I was saying; so there is a caveat for you. But I thought it was general knowledge that it is more difficult there. When teachers we utilised spoke slowly and clearly to me, it was fairly clear but otherwise in the street I noticed the missing consonants. To my inept ears it sounded like they were not finishing the words. I guess there are similar variations in English if you compare slangy Australian English to Scottish English. Actually I heard a comparison made that learning Spanish in Cuba is like learning English in Scotland- probably a good analogy. There is nothing wrong with it of course just as there is nothing wrong with Scottish English. There are few schools in Cuba but anyone will teach if you ask around for about $5 per hour. No need to pay more. Ask around and you will have tutors coming from everywhere. But $5 per hour is the going rate. Again Dan I am not an expert but its a well known observation that Cuban Spanish is hard to understand. They understood me all right though. As an Aussie I can speak in front of an American in such a way that he would not understand a word whilst other Australians would comprehend the lot. Cheers. Have a good trip. I emphasise I am not an expert. If they want you to understand there will be no problem (I think).
Dan-H24

Dan-H24

Edwyn: even with my limited knowledge I noticed the dropped S's"in Cuba. As an interesting aside, I have been watching some videos called Light Speed Spanish by a Spanish speaking brit and an English speaking Spaniard. In the video I watched yesterday, she (the Spaniard) commented on how often they drop letters and contract words, similar to the way English speakers say things like "gonna" when we mean going to." Speaking of the airport, landing and going through immigration at Jose Marti airport was one of the highlights of my trip there.
Edwyn-G

Edwyn-G

Hi Dan I landed at the airport near Varadero which is where I met the Spanish teacher from the USA. Yes very interesting. I am definitely not an expert. I am finding the direct/indirect object pronouns really really hard, try as I might. At least I am now starting to understand the set up. But hearing them is so daunting. I am a long way from comprehension in real life at natural speed. I can only keep trying. On a trip to Japan I decided to rote learn one Spanish sentence which is now proving to be very useful for my understanding. It was "Me lo puede indicar en el mapa" or " can show me on the map?", a sentence I plucked out of a guide book at random to memorize. Why it was so constructed was a real mystery. But now as I read Neruda poetry and Marquez tracts the use of these pronouns is becoming clearer through the one sentence I learned by heart. I kept saying "Me lo puede indicar en el mapa" for the 6 weeks I was in Japan somewhat mystified by why the me came before the lo. Then standing outside a railway station at a crossing a European guy was holding a map trying to find a hotel. He said in English " can you please show me on the map" I said to him 'where are you from?" and synchronistically he said "Spain". Isn't that an amazing coincidence? He was the only white person I spoke to for the whole trip and he asked in English the very thing I was learning in Spanish Incredibly ironic. But my point is rote learning has been very useful to me in studying Spanish- learn it by heart is my motto and figure out the grammar later. I have found the learning of the conjugation of yo he terminado, tu has terminado ella ha terminado, nosotros hemos terminado and ellos han terminado incredibly useful. Just saying what has worked for me in the 4 years I have been trying. I am still hopeless though.
Cristian-Montes-de-Oca

Cristian-Montes-de-Oca

Hola Edwyn and hola amigo Dan!!! Sorry for my late response, I've been having a lot of work this week (and also last week) but it is a pleasure for me to answer, participate or comment on this forums, since it makes me happy to help other interested in my native language,\as I have said before in other posts, it is an honor and makes me feel proud that people from other countries take an interest in Español or Castellano as it is called in some latinamerican countries). Also excuse my english, as it not perfect, but I also do enjoy practicing it here, whilst , helping out with your questions!. Anyway...primero lo primero (first thing first!)...Yes! I used the famous "lo" , and I know "lo" and "le" sometimes seem a little bit hard to understand, and to be honest, and while reading your comments, I did a question to myself, (in spanish of course haha) How does it work? How/when/or why do we use "lo" and "le"?. And the mexican hamster living in my brain just responded "No tengo idea!" haha, so , not being a spanish teacher or spanish linguist myself (I am just a native speaker and have found the intereset to try to learn more and more), I had to think this a lot and also search for some more information. So , 'lo' is a direct objetc and "le" indirect Object. The easiest explanation I found was here. http://www.studyspanish.com/lessons/iodopro.htm and also here http://spanish.about.com/od/sentencestructure/a/lo.htm This last page says at the end Loísmo: In some regions, you may occasionally hear the use of lo as an indirect object instead of le. However, this practice, known as loísmo, is considered substandard and should be avoided by those learning the language. In other words, It might be used a lot in Mexico, but it is not a rule. Spanish has a million ways of saying things, so, why not just change the sentence a little bit, and you can say the same things, with different words. Also I found this example that i think is very easyly understood le is a pronoun that means "to him/her" or "for him/her." In other words, it's an indirect object pronoun. (In some cases it will mean "to/for you" where "you" is "Usted.") So if you want to say something like "I'm giving him the book," you have to keep in mind that "he" is not being given. The book is being given. The book is being given "to him" so you would say "Le doy el libro." If you wanted to replace "the book" with a pronoun, you'd use "lo". If it were a house, you'd use "la". Those are the direct object pronouns for the singular. Direct objects are receiving the action -- so you can ask yourself, "What is being given?" if the verb is "give", "What is being read?" if the verb is "read", etc. If you want to use both le and lo together, "I'm giving it (el libro) to him," le becomes se to make pronunciation easier, and the sentence becomes "Se lo doy." I hope this info helps clear that first question and the usage of indirect objects. Now , for the 2nd subject, which is vernacular phrases, slang language, accents and idioms. This is one of my favorite subjects related to my language, Spanish! and I also find it very interesting in other languages, like english, french and german. When I hear someone from Caracas, Venezuela speak, my jaw drops instantly! It's so beautiful (at least for my ears)!. Same thing with the "Rolo"(Bogotá) accent from Colombia or even some northern accents from Mexico. It would be my all time dream to be able to identify all the accents and where they belong to , at least from spanish speaking countries, and this is still very hard for me, now imagine how I feel trying to identify this in German. In the case of english, I have also studied , or tried to, a lot!. But as you mention , is not just the accent, but also the word usage and some words that make a difference to identify where the speaker is from. If you wish to know a little bit more, at least from Mexican slang (and the different varities) , you can make me a list of things, frases or words in english that you want to know how to say in slang mexican spanish and i can write it down. It is going to be fun! haha I will include a small (fake) conversation between two guys , from my city, and if you don't understand, don't worry, I will put a more standard spanish version. -Que onda wey? -Nada, aquí "nomas", jalando. -Vas a caerle al party en la noche? -Simón, ahi nos vemos wey. -Arre wey, "alra" Spanish book version haha -Hola, que hay de nuevo, amigo?--(-Wey or Buey is a very VERY popular way of saying dude, bro, friend in Mexico. Onda literally means wave, but in this case is like " What's up bro?") -Nada, estoy aqui nada mas trabajando- (nomas short for "nada mas" which can be use like the english, only or just. Jalar means "to pull" but we use it here as a slang version for Working.) -Vas a ir a la fiesta ésta noche?- We use the english word Party sometimes, and "caerle" means something like "to fall" or "drop" just like the english "Drop by". -Si, ahí nos vemos- Yes, I'll see you there. Simón is a name, Simon, in english, but since it starts with "SI" sometimes we use it as "yes". Wey is seen again in this sentence. -O.K amigo, nos vemos al rato- "Arre" is the spanish word used when you are in a horse and yell "giddy up" haha but we use it a lot to say OK, at least here in my city, "alra" is short for "al rato", or later on, I hope you enjoy it! Que tengan buen dia, see ya "alra"!
Edwyn-G

Edwyn-G

Thanks Christian. ?Como de trata la vida? Sorry I don't have a Spanish keyboard. I learned that in Costa Rica. I am awestruck by your awesome answer. I couldn't imagine answering a question about English grammar in Spanish with similar detail, accuracy and insight. Awesome. Where the heck did you learn English like that? Glad my question got you thinking. The vernacular part of your answer was very interesting. Reminded me of the vernacular way most Australians say hello which to you would sound like gdie may (good day mate.) and even if you studied English at school in Mexico you would wonder what was said. Or if someone said "thats great" it might sound like "beyewdy mite". (you beauty mate) If you thought he was calling you good looking you would probably get a punch in the mouth. "You beauty" is a common expression meaning thats great and generally used by macho blokes (men). It is pretty important to get it right before using it and I guess that applies in Mexico. The person is not calling you beautiful- he is just saying something good happened. An Iranian immigrant nurse in Australia used the word "awesome" to me recently, thinking it means "thats good" but she used it in a way that was not how English speakers would use it. I was having an EKG done and had to take my shirt off. I assure you the sight was far from awesome. But she was just saying thanks for getting ready for the EKG. How I wish she meant it literally. So using "awesome" in that context instead of sounding proficient sounded comical. So I would suggest we would need to be very careful in using any vernacular. Thanks for the le/lo explanation. I think I will lay low before using any slang wherein lo/lo is used instead of se lo. I am trying to get it in my head to say " se lo" and not to ever say lo lo or le lo. I can understand the direct/indirect pronoun distinction in theory but using it in real life is a different matter and hearing it used is even more difficult because Spanish word order although often similar, in some cases can look very strange to a native English speaker, e.g. puede me lo indicar or "can you me it show". For us hearing it in a flurry of naturally paced speech is the hard bit- not understanding the idea scholastically. I think understanding that the indirect object pronoun always comes before the direct object pronoun might be the crucial bit. I guess practical usage in real life is the only way to go whilst being careful not to say things like "awesome" until you know how the native speakers really use it. Thanks for your thoughtful and articulate response. It really was awesome coming from a second language speaker. I am jealous of your linguistic ability in a second language. We say "well done" in English. I am interested to know if you say "buen hecho" in that sense in Spanish or is that only in reference to bisteka? I was saying "buen hecho" a lot in Costa Rica meaning "you did that well" and getting some odd looks. They must have thought I was crazy. Or would they have got what I meant? Just curious. Thanks again. Well done mate! (amigo)
Dan-H24

Dan-H24

Edwyn: if you are using an Apple computer I can tell you how to change your keyboard layout to make typing accent marks and the opening question mark easier, while only affecting English typing in one small regard. I think Windows has a similar option but the steps are different and I do not know them.
Edwyn-G

Edwyn-G

Hola Dan. Muchas gracias mi amigo. Would it affect my English typing (that I need for other study? Usted es muy amable.
Dan-H24

Dan-H24

Edwyn: here is what you do in Apple iOS: Go to System Preferences and click the Language and Text icon. Click on the Input Sources tab. Scroll down until you find the input source that is checked, and UNCHECK that source. Mine was, I think, US Extended. I am not sure what you use there in Australia. CHECK the US International PC box. Now you can make accented vowels by typing ' then the vowel. Type the tilde over the n by holding down OPTION and N, release option and retype N...ñ. Create ¿ by holding down OPTION, SHIFT, AND ? together. ¡ is made by typing OPTION and ! together. The only problem I have found is when you want to use the apostrophe/quote key in a normal manner. Depending on what you type afterwards it might make other accent marks. This can be worked around by typing a space after the apostrophe/quote and it then operates normally. As I said, I think you can do the same thing on a PC, I just don't know how. Buena Suerte, Dan
Edwyn-G

Edwyn-G

Thanks Dan. You are very kind. Much appreciated. Have a nice day or night wherever you are cheers
Dan-H24

Dan-H24

Estoy en los Estados Unidos, Edwyn. Son las 11PM aquí.
Edwyn-G

Edwyn-G

Estoy en Las Filipinas. They tell the time in Spanish here and the numbers are the same. A las once en la mañana acqui. Vamos al cine ahora en Bacolod City. In Tagalog: Maraming salamat po sa inyo. If you think Spanish is hard you ought to try Tagalog
Ava Dawn

Ava Dawn

¿ = alt 0191. Enjoyed the conversations. Thanks
Cristian-Montes-de-Oca

Cristian-Montes-de-Oca

Gday mate! La vida me trata bien! (Life treats me well or fine or good haha)!!! People from Costa Rica always say "Pura vida" when they talk about their country, even if literally means "pure life" meaning that you will be so happy and full of (pure) life when you visit it. I haven't been to Costa Rica, but friends have told me it is GREEN and full of VIDA!. Anyway, I got this little amount of english mainly thanks to american TV and radio. I was born, raised, and still living in a very well known mexican city called Tijuana...Yes, a city famous for drug trafficking, prostitution, gambling and all sort of bad things...which, to be honest, makes me sad, because, being part of a family that has been living here for more than 65 years and couldn't be more happy, and never had any of those issues. (In Tijuana years that about, half the history of the city since it was founded less than 130 years and less than 60 as an official municipality). You can see that my avatar/profile pic, has some images of my city, including the famous cebra-looking donkeys and the jersey of our soccer/football team, Club Tijuana. This is a whole different subject, but I just wanted to take this oportunity to tell you that, even though Tijuana had some years (2006-2008) that was consider one of the most (if not the most) dangerous city in Mexico, now it doesnt even get in the TOP 10 of dangerous cities of Mexico. The mexican Army did a great job eliminating, killing and arresting basically all of the Tijuana Drug Cartel formed by the Arellano Felix family and return peace to this border. And yes, violence has not been 100% eliminated and drug traffic is still happening, but as I mentioned before, and comming from a family that has live so many years here, I can assure you that tourist and general population are safe. How safe? Well, I cannot measure it, the thing is that you do not feel threatened or insecure anymore, economy has reactivated, tourism as well, and we are the bussiest and most visited border in the world, you would not find tastier tacos in Mexico!, Baja California is getting famous for its cuisine, the production of wine (the biggest producer in all Mexico), fish and shrimp tacos (DELICIOUS!) modern music and football/soccer! (Go Club Tijuana)....So visit Tijuana, don't be afraid, I can be your guide ;) and we can practice Spanish....and of course we will visit safe areas and meet cool people... So!!!! How did I learn English?. Remember how old is my city? Well, When I was a kid (I am 26 now), my TV had only about 10 channels, maybe even less, like 8. And 3/4 of them were transmited directly .from the USA, either from a local TV station from San Diego California, or Los Angeles and also national broadcasts from other American channels, like ABC , NBC and FOX. The 2 or 3 remaining mexican channels...well..they sucked!!! A lot of news and telenovelas and only a few cartoons, very old ones, which to be honest i liked, but anyway hahaha. So me and my brothers decided it was more fun to watch Barney, Mr. Rogers Neighbourhood, Sesame Street , The X men and THe ninja Turtles, and then The Simpsons, South Park and all sort of american TV shows and cartoons.Same thing happened with radio stations. By the way my father had it even harder, ZERO Mexican channels when growing up, so he is very fluent in English also. So, in a few words, I got my first dosage of english was given to me while I was growing up and it just sticked in some part of my brain. In a few months I was able to understand what Barney was telling to Baby Bop haha or what Homer was yelling at Marge, and also what Jerry Springfield was talking about on his show, or even what was happening in the White House or New York. In school I did not had too much English, or it was just basic thing that I already knew by then so I just learn a bit of grammar and perfected my pronunciation. Later I had a chance to work in a call center for about 2 years, for an american cellphone company and since we recieved calls from all over the United States, I had a chance of training my ear to identify wheter they were calling from Texas, Georgia, Florida, California or Michigan. And that mixed with the fact that I love learning languages, and also living in the border and having the privilege to cross the border almost every weekend (Legally of course haha I had a VIsa since I was like 9 months haha) helped me practice my english prounciation and at the same time visit one of the most beautiful cities I have ever been to, SAN DIEGO! :D, It has been AWESOME! (I hope it was used correctly). Thanks again for reading me mate! See ya later! Saludos desde Tijuana, Baja California :)
Edwyn-G

Edwyn-G

Hola Cristian Thanks again for your detailed response. It explained your amazing fluency in a second language. I lived in Guatemala for several months last year and meant to get to Mexico but my wife wanted to see countries further south and we were pressed for time. I was in Mexico City in 1996 then Oaxaca, Guanajuato, Guadalajara, Taxco etc. Me gusto su pais. I am scared to write in Spanish because I don't want to make a fool of myself. Your capacity in English is dazzling- deslumbrante! My dream is to be bilingual. Thanks for the kind offer to meet up in Tijuana. Your country deeply impressed me- especially the kindness of the people. There were heaps of Mexicans in Havana when I visited last year. One of the most unforgettable sights of my life was Ciudad de Mexico from the air in 1996. I studied Spanish in Bolivia a few years ago and have been to Peru and Argentina a few times, Chile several times, Uruguay, Ecuador, Cuba, Guatemala, Panama, Costa Rica and have Mexican friends in Canada. I am still hopeless at Spanish and bilingual people fascinate me. Right now I am in the Philippines which used to be the same country as Mexico. Mexican immigration to the Philippines mainly occurred during the Spanish colonial period. Between 1565-1821 the Philippines were in fact administered from the Viceroyalty of New Spain's capital, Mexico City. About 5% of Filipinos speak Spanish as a first language. I am also learning Tagalog as well as Spanish. If people don't understand a word I often try a Spanish one and lo and behold they know it. Many Spanish words are in Tagalog but the grammar is completely different. They use the same numbers and tell the time the same. Even Indigenous Mexican blood is mixed in to the general gene pool here. Anyway thanks for your very interesting post. BTW we play a different kind of football in Australia unique to Australia called AFL or Australian Rules. It is a violent and spectacular game. Google some Google images AFL High Marks to get an idea. I do have a soccer team though from living in Bolivia it is Universidad in Sucre. So I have a Sucre scarf and loved going to the football there. Have you heard the song Tijuana, by JJ Cale? I can sing and play it on the guitar. Gracias mi amigo. Suerte!
Dan-H24

Dan-H24

Cristian: I have had the pleasure of visiting your country twice. First time was just a border crossing to visit the market in Nogales. Second time I stayed in Queretero and San Miguel de Allende for a week and loved it. It was a sister city exchange program and I got to go as an ambassador for the city I worked for in Michigan. They treated us like royalty there, and while we were there they were celebrating a famous battle that had occurred something like 475 years before, complete with native people in authentic clothing from the period. Both cities are full of spanish colonial buildings which I loved. In fact, the first few days I was in Havana I kept thinking I was back in Mexico because the architecture is so similar. I hope this isn't considered offensive in any way, but I can't help thinking that the Spanish were cruel conquerors back in those days, but they left some spectacular buildings behind. Now, what I want more than anything is to hear Cristian say "G'day mate!" with his Spanish accent! Saludos, Dan

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